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Reading The Wheel of Time: Fiery Magic and Icy Distrust in Robert Jordan’s The Eye of the World (Part 3)

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Reading The Wheel of Time: Fiery Magic and Icy Distrust in Robert Jordan’s The Eye of the World (Part 3)

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Reading The Wheel of Time: Fiery Magic and Icy Distrust in Robert Jordan’s The Eye of the World (Part 3)

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Published on March 6, 2018

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Dramatic irony is a tool used by authors, often to increase suspense or to set the scene for a future action, in which the audience knows something that the characters don’t. Like when Romeo doesn’t get the message about the Priest’s plan and thinks Juliet has actually died, but the audience knows the truth and can only watch, helpless, as he kills himself to be with her. Dramatic irony can be employed in a variety of ways in stories, but sometimes an aspect of dramatic irony can be created that is outside of the author’s control; like if you’re watching an action movie and the hero thinks the bad guy has been defeated but the audience knows there’s still almost an hour left in the film, guaranteeing at least one more battle scene. Or when Mat decides that he and Rand and Perrin have escaped the Draghkar, “if it was ever really after [them]” and that they don’t need to go to Tar Valon after all. Meanwhile the reader is shaking their head thinking, Oh, honey. We’re only 180 pages in! Of the first book! But Mat is kinda cute anyway, and his role as the Peregrin Took of the party is about to become even more obvious.

Welcome back to week three of Reading The Wheel of Time! We’re going to cover the stay at Baerlon today, and watch Mat (and Rand) figure out how to make everything just a little more dangerous for everyone. There will be new additions to our cast as well (more ladies, hurray!) and the narrative will begin to show us just a little more of what the One Power can do.

This week’s installment of Reading The Wheel of Time covers Chapters 14 through 17.

At the Stag and Lion, the travelers are met by Master Fitch, the innkeeper, who appears to know and greatly respect “Alys” (Moiraine) and “Andra” (Lan), and despite the unconventional entrance the party makes through the back gate of the inn, they are welcomed heartily and offered room and baths and anything they could wish, although Master Fitch does admit that the inn is quite full. Moiraine asks about the Children of the Light and then after someone named “Min,” but the boys and Thom are off to a bath before Rand can overhear anything. While bathing, Rand and his friends get into an uncomfortable conversation with the bath attendant who asks about trouble in the Two Rivers, and mentions rumors of Trollocs. Mat is all too eager to share their story, and it takes Thom, Perrin and Rand jumping over his sentences and Lan suddenly showing up and getting rid of the attendant to keep him from giving away something he shouldn’t.

After his bath, Rand glimpses Moiraine talking with a girl wearing men’s clothing, but Moiraine says nothing about her as they go to dinner. In a private dining room they sit and eat, and Rand considers apologizing to Egwene for his behavior, but she turns her back on him before he can say anything, so he lets it go. As they eat, Lan fills them in on what gossip he learned from the common room, inducing that Logain, the man calling himself the new Dragon, won a great battle at Ghealdan. The gatekeeper has already told them of this, and that some rumors say that the Aes Sedai were all killed, but Lan didn’t hear any information to either corroborate or dismiss that information. It is decided that the party will stay for two nights at the inn, to rest and recuperate, although after Mat’s recklessness in the bathing room, Thom and Lan are a little skeptical that the boys can stay out of trouble.

That night, Rand has a long and horrible dream, in which he is walking in a long shadowy hallway. Thirsty, he follows the sound of dripping water, but is unable to find it, so he opens one of the many doors in the hallway. There he finds himself in a chamber, one wall open to a balcony and a red and grey storm-torn sky. There is a fireplace with stones that look like writing faces in the corner of Rand’s eye, and a mirror which reflects the place but somehow only shows Rand as a blurry image.

Suddenly there is also a man there, a handsome man but one with an uncanny sense about him. When he speaks Rand sees his mouth and eyes full of flame, and he tries to retreat, but he only finds himself entering the same room through a different door, the man waiting for him still. Rand is terrified, trying to tell himself he is dreaming, but the man asks him if it is a dream, and whether that matters. He offers Rand a drink from a goblet, one that Rand almost accepts, but at the last moment decides not have. The man seems disappointed.

Rand asks his name, and is horrified when the man replies that some call him Ba’alzamon, the name of the Dark One. He tries again to escape, but the door will not open, and Ba’alzamon asks Rand if he is “the one.” He tells Rand that he cannot escape him, asks him if he seeks glory and power, tells him that the White Tower will use him like a puppet, and consume him. Rand bites back when Ba’alzamon insultes Rand’s parents, but he cannot sustain enough anger to protect himself. Ba’alzamon tells Rand of his great deeds, the places he has destroyed with his Trollocs and evil army, great men he has driven to kill, and of Lews Therin, who Ba’alzamon drove insane, causing him to kill his wife and family.

When Rand tries again to tell himself that he is dreaming, Ba’alzamon mocks him and uses his power to cause a rat to bend slowly backward until its spine snaps. He suggests that if Rand is so sure this is a dream then he should go to the Aes Sedai, to the White Tower. He asks if Rand is enough of a fool to believe that they will let him live, knowing of his dream, and then begins to bend Rand’s back as he did the rat’s. Only then does Rand wake up, horrified and headachey, but also asking himself if the dream really was bad enough for him to ask Moiraine’s help, and if he has any choice in the matter, anyway.

When Rand wakes the next morning he discovers, much to his dismay, that dead rats have been found all throughout the inn, all with their backs broken. What’s more, he discovers that Perrin has had the same dream, and possibly Mat as well. Like Rand, Perrin isn’t sure that they can trust Moiraine. Rand isn’t able to convince Perrin to get out of bed, so he decides to go find Mat, who is out somewhere exploring the city. But in the stableyard Rand runs into someone else, Min, the girl in men’s clothes who knows Moiraine.

Min tells Rand that she can see things about people, and sometimes know what they mean. She tells Rand some of what she sees about each of his companions, including Rand himself, and that when they are together she sees sparks around them, “thousands of them, and a big shadow, darker than midnight.” and that “The sparks are trying to fill the shadow, and the shadow is trying to swallow the sparks.”

Rand is unsettled by Min’s descriptions of her vision as well as what she clearly knows about the party, including Moiraine’s real name, and gets away from her as quickly as he can. He explores the city, marveling at all the shops and all the people, until he discovers someone he knows, Fain, the peddler everyone assumes was killed by Trollocs. He is dressed in rags and is extremely wary of Rand, who tells the man that he is traveling with Moiraine and the name of the inn they are staying in. Fain seems very frightened of even the mention of the Aes Sedai, but also interested. He makes Rand promise not to tell Moiraine about him, and then takes the first opportunity to get away from Rand.

Rand knocks over someone while chasing the peddler, but that someone coincidentally turns out to be Mat. Rand asks if Mat also had the dream (he did) and tells him about the real life rats in the inn. Mat also agrees that they shouldn’t tell Moiraine, but as they are heading back to meet up with Perrin, they encounter the Whitecloaks in the street. All this time Rand has felt his headache building, has felt himself struggling for the ability to focus on anything. Now, even though he is distantly aware that he should be frightened and cautious around the Children of the Light, as Moiraine and Lan warned them to be, he feels only amusement and derision towards them, a feeling Mat apparently shares. He decides to play a prank on the men, and uses his slingshot to cause some barrels to fall off a cart and roll towards the Whitecloaks, splattering their smart outfits with mud. When the men see Rand laughing and amused they have a confrontation, Rand going so far as to almost bait them as the question his involvement in the accident and his identity. The heron-marked sword Rand’s father gave him also attracts notice, and it is only the Town Watch arriving that keeps them all from coming to blows.

Mat returns to Rand’s side, shocked at his friend’s behavior. Rand is shocked too, the weird feeling in his head and fuzzy feeling vanishing suddenly. They retreat back to the inn at once, running into Thom on the way and telling him about the dream. As soon as the name Ba’alzamon is mentioned, Thom becomes very anxious, telling the boys to be more careful saying such things. He tells them that the names Ba’alzamon gave, names of men he claimed he ruined or that the White Tower used as puppets, are real names, that they were all false dragons, some of whom lived thousands of years ago. He agrees with the boys’ consensus not to tell Moiraine, at least not yet. However they soon have other things on their mind; they meet Perrin in the stableyard and learn that Nynaeve has come to find them, and that she is inside waiting for them. With Moiraine.

Once again Min is there to tell Rand that she also saw the sparks between Moiraine and Nynaeve, and that she sees greater danger for the party now that Nynaeve has arrived. Rand and his friends go inside to find the two women sitting on opposite ends of the table, locked in some kind of staring contest. Both Perrin and Rand observe that the room feels icy cold. Nynaeve is convinced that Moiraine spirited the young people away from their village, and is skeptical when everyone insists in turns that the boys are the danger to the village and that they are safer with Moiraine than back in the Two Rivers. Moiraine asks everyone to leave so she can continue to speak with Nynaeve in private. Afterwards, Rand talks to Nynaeve, who tells him that he has grown since she last saw him. She tells how she decided to be the one who left home to find him and the others, and when Rand asks what Moiraine said to her, Nynaeve reveals that the Aes Sedai was curious to know if any of the boy was born outside of the Two Rivers. Rand tells her what Tam said in his delirium, and Nynaeve assures him that he is his father and mother’s child, although he was born while Tam was away from his home. Rand feels reassured, but only a little. Nynaeve isn’t sure whether she will believe Moiraine about the danger to Rand and Mat and Perrin, but she certainly kept the truth of Rand’s birth from her.

That night everyone gathers in the common room of the inn to hear Thom tell his tales and to listen to music and dance. During the frivolities, Rand notices a man with a prominent scar on his face, and when he mentions him to Lan, the warder identifies him as a spy for the Whitecloaks. He claims that they don’t have anything to fear from the man, but he also seems apprehensive, sensing that something is wrong, and tells the party that they will be leaving Baerlon very early in the morning. But that same night Rand is confronted in the hallway by the sudden appearance of a Myrddraal. Rand is frozen by his terror, unable to speak or move, and the Myrddraal raises its sword apparently to kill him, but then stops, telling him that he “belongs to the Great Lord of the Dark” and disappearing into the shadows at the same moment that Lan comes running.

The party leaves at once, including Nynaeve and Thom, and Lan and Moiraine manage to persuade the guard at the gate to let them out even though it is after dark. But as the gate is being opened the Children of the Light appear, questioning their reasons for leaving in the night, and one of them, their leader, recognizes Rand. He declares that he is arresting them, believing them all to be Darkfriends. But Moiraine is having none of that, and suddenly appears to grow taller, distracting the Whitecloaks as Lan gets everyone out through the open gate. Moiraine grows so tall she can step over the wall, then joins the rest of the party and returns to her normal size. As they ride, they can see burning in the city behind them; the Stag and Lion. Nynaeve blames Moiraine for the destruction of the inn and the pain caused to its owners and residents, and they argue briefly about whether it would be right to return to help, before everyone has to concede that the best thing they can do to protect other people from danger is to get away as fast as possible.

* * *

For fans of the series: Check out The Wheel of Time Reread Redux by Leigh Butler

So the bath scene is as direct an homage to The Fellowship of the Ring as we have yet seen, and it’s capped off by Mat, despite multiple warnings, trying to talk about their adventures just like Pippin did while the hobbits were staying at the Prancing Pony. It’s kind of funny how Mat can’t even understand what the others are doing as they desperately try to stop him from talking about Trollocs, but it also speaks to a level of innocence beyond even that of Perrin or Rand. Mat may be the same age as the other two boys, but he certainly seems younger, and he is established as a careless and prank-loving character even before the incident with the Whitecloaks.

The encounter with the Whitecloaks is also quite reminiscent of Fellowship‘s scene at the Prancing Pony, because for all that Mat’s actions are completely uncomprehending of the true danger posed by the Children of the Light, it is Rand who does the most damage under the sway of whatever strange power is affecting him. Just as the Ring slipping onto Frodo’s finger at the worst possible moment is much more dangerous for him than Pippin’s big mouth, Rand’s compulsion to deride and bait the Whitecloaks, to allow them to observe him and his distinctive sword, puts him in a very serious position. He is incredibly fortunate that luck is on his side and the arrival of the Town Watch compels the Whitecloaks to leave him.

But worse, I think, than either of these, is Rand’s carelessness in telling Fain about Moiraine’s presence and about the party’s location at the Stag and Lion. Unlike Mat, Rand has understood their danger more or less from the beginning, and he knows to be cautious around people like the bath attendant, the kindly innkeeper, or Min. But just because he knows Fain from the peddler’s visits to the Two Rivers, he seems to think nothing of the secrecy they’ve all agreed to keep. Fain’s distrust of Moiraine is clear enough, but I think there is something more to his insistence that Rand promise not to tell her about him. I suspect it is Fain who tipped of the Whitecloaks to send a spy to the Stag and Lion, resulting in the party being waylaid at the gate.

They weren’t prepared for that display from Moiraine, though! When Egwene remarks upon how large Moiraine became, the Aes Sedai answers that “the eye sees what is not there,” suggesting that the way she grew large and the timbre of her voice were illusions she cast, rather than a physical manifestation of her use of saidar–the gates don’t start to shut until after she has apparently stepped over the wall, so she could easily have actually gone through them.

There’s no description of anyone feeling cold here, in fact we get the impression of heat instead from the staff that melts the Whitecloak leader’s sword. However, I did notice that the description of Moiraine and Nynaeve’s silent confrontation seemed to support my theory that the feeling of cold is associated with the use of the One Power. “Despite the fire” the description reads “it seemed freezing cold, and all coming from the two women at the table.”

By contrast, whatever happened to Rand when he was confronted by the Whitecloaks, clearly an evil influence, wherever it came from, is described as a tingling heat, which increases almost until he feels “as if he were burning up.” Even the evil healing power used on Lews Telamon in the Prologue had an element of heat in its description;–“fire seared his marrow” and “every pulse gushed new flame through him.”

This all raises more questions about how the One Power works, what its strength and limitations are, as well as questions about the ability of the Dark One to reach out from whatever place he is apparently bound to. It also begins to spin a theme about trust, or rather of distrust, that seems already to be having a profound affect on the players in this story. Rand, Perrin, Mat, and Thom are all still highly suspicious of Moiraine, her motives, and her use of her Power. It may be that Ba’alzamon is right that the Aes Sedai might kill Rand if they knew about his dream; after all Moiraine has said before that she would kill any of the boys rather than let the Dark One use them for his purposes. But I think it even more likely that the suggestion is meant to sow further distrust and uncertainty in the boys against what appears to be the only person who can protect them. Like Fain making Rand promise not to tell Moiraine that he is in Baerlon, Ba’alzamon is trying to keep the Aes Sedai from learning about what he is doing.

And as for Mat? I suppose we will see if he has learned his lesson about taking things seriously. I kind of doubt it, though.

For those of you reading along, I won’t be doing any new chapters next week, but rather revisiting events and themes from the prologue and the chapters I have covered so far. We’ll talk some more about magic and the True Source as we tackle the idea of prophecy, fate, and reincarnation in The Wheel of Time. Meanwhile, watch your spoilers in the comments and don’t tell strange paranoid peddlers where you’re sleeping!

Sylas K Barrett would like to remind everyone that he called it. Nynaeve is back! Sylas has a feeling that he is really going to like Nynaeve.

About the Author

Sylas K Barrett

Author

Sylas K Barrett is a queer writer and creative based in Brooklyn. A fan of nature, character work, and long flowery descriptions, Sylas has been heading up Reading the Wheel of Time since 2018. You can (occasionally) find him on social media on Bluesky (@thatsyguy.bsky.social) and Instagram (@thatsyguy)
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7 years ago

Regarding Ba’alzamon and his statements, all I’m going to say is that it’s good to keep in mind that the best lies are built around a kernel of truth.

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7 years ago

Kelsey – nice recap and I like the your bio tag reference to your Nynaeve prediction.  My favorite line in the chapters – apart from Min’s many viewings that are food for thought as we proceed through the entire series – is Lan’s shocked “You tracked us?” and her embarrassed response to his ensuing praise.  As you have seen though these early chapters, Lan is hyper-competent and in control at all times and it was fun to see him surprised to his boots by Nyn’s accomplishment.    

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7 years ago

*cackles*

It’s also noting that Fain pretty much has to be the source of the rumors regarding trollocs in the Two Rivers. It’s not like there were couriers or anyone who’d have been moving faster than a small mounted party.

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7 years ago

@2, it is cute how Lan’s reaction isn’t annoyance or hurt ego but ‘Wow this woman is good, I am so impressed!’

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7 years ago

Matrim Took…..*heheheheh*

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7 years ago

When I first read tEotW, I could not stand Mat at all (especially after Shadar Logoth). But then he was Healed of the dagger’s taint and I got to know the REAL him and fell absolutely in love with him. I am constantly torn between him and Rand and since reading tGH for the first time, he is by far one of my very favourite characters anywhere, EVER.

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Khorib
7 years ago

What the hell #6?! SPOILER ALERT ^^^^

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Dandragoran
7 years ago

When interviewed RJ acknowledged reading LOTR, but wanted to make a more realistic story. Most of the gaffs in the city may be attributed to the two rivers folks being country bumpkins.  Rand facing off with the whiteclokes may be a natural touching of the one power Moirraine warmed them about.

 

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7 years ago

OH. I did not consider it too spoilery, especially after Kelsey himself wrote in the first article (quoting) I’m going to try to avoid spoilers in these articles as much as I can, but feel free to talk spoilers in the comments. But thank you for the moderators for whiting it out, then.

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18342772
7 years ago

Jordan was always pretty open about the fact that WoT opens with echoes of LOTR, both as a comfort to readers and, I think, a play on the “history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes” sort of worldview.

On that subject, there’s a good post on TOR about the subject, arguing that WoT “is best understood through the lens of Tolkien’s own creative project. The Wheel of Time is the most prominent and successful American response to Tolkien’s masterwork.” So, not to derail things, but people might find that interesting. For better and worse, Jordan knew the notes he was playing.

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Dandragoran
7 years ago

As far Matt he never had much respect for authority, never developed a filter and was always pushing the limits.  This is different than Pippin who did not develop any social skills into later on and did not take the danger seriously. 

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7 years ago

It appears Tor won’t let me copy-paste a lot of text into a new post. Trying again, sorry if I’m double-posting.

Spoilers whited out between slashes*

Rand and Mat appear to be competing for the title of World’s Biggest Doofus. Or possibly practicing to compete as a team.

It feels a little early in the story for a Villain Monologue, but as you say, the characters don’t know that. And the dream serves as a tension-raising infodump, or would if we as first-time readers knew what any of it meant. ///And if it were true.///

To me, the most direct LOTR homage was Min telling Rand that Two Rivers people are said to be seemingly soft as butter but actually tough as old oak roots. IIRC, someone said the exact same thing about Shire hobbits.

///”Very little was funny anymore./// Uh-oh, Rand is already forgetting how to laugh.///

Audiobook-listener problems: I keep hearing “Children” and briefly thinking it referred to actual children, despite the context.

I was surprised by Thom’s reference to “the eight corners of the world.” Why do they think this world is an octagon? (They probably don’t; we don’t actually think our world is a four-cornered polygon).

I took the coldness of the room with Nynaeve and Moiraine in it to be a sense of their silent hostility. 

Did Lan sense the evil of the Myrddraal downstairs, as Moiraine said he would be able to sense Trollocs at a quarter-mile range?

“Master Fitch takes Darkfriends too lightly.” Har har.

In the Reread and Redux, Leigh said that “Dragkhar” sounds like the name of a cheesy cologne. Now I wonder if she knew that it actually is. Almost.

*Note: I have read the books, but that was mostly 10+ years ago and I’ve forgotten a lot. I really don’t know the answers to the questions I ask here, but if they’re spoilery for indicating things that I don’t recall happening, please tell me so.

 

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Austin
7 years ago

Of course, the main difference between Mat and Pippin is that (spoilers in white): Mat becomes a bad-ass fighter. Well, technically he already is because he was taught the quarterstaff by his dad. But we don’t see that until book 3.

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Faculty Guy
7 years ago

@12: I’m betting that “eight corners of the world” is a reference to a CUBE shape.  Maybe humor on RJ’s part.

 

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7 years ago

@14: Oh, right. A three-dimensional thing could have eight corners by being a cube.

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7 years ago

The 8 corners of the world is probably an Asian reference, the bagua (ba = 8) has 8 directions (and the middle as 9).

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7 years ago

Eight corners- I have heard “the four corners of te world” used in Western literature before.

Japan in the first part of the 20th century had the goal of “bringing the eight corners of the world under one roof”. I’m sure RJ knew of that “Manifest Destiny” equivalent.

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7 years ago

If we look at a map, I bet we can find Eight corners – my guess is Tear, Illian, Altara, Toman Head, Arad Doman, Saldaea, Shienar and Carhien.  

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7 years ago

Ooooh, cool.

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7 years ago

@8 Spoilers re: touching the One Power…

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Brent
7 years ago

I don’t think it would be too spoilery to mention that ALL seemingly minor characters have a way of popping back up later in the epic.  Sometimes they are just that, minor characters who happen to have another cameo later in our story.   TEOTW is especially marked with minor characters whom show up now and again later on. And sometimes (like someone mentioned in this group of chapters) the seemingly minor character is actually Super important and you should file them away as someone to pay attention to because we will see them again and again.

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SCMof2814
7 years ago

Nynaeve is not a lady. She works for a living, thank you very much! Braids don’t pull themselves, after all.

Nice allusions with their aliases. ‘Alys’ is, of course, taking them down the rabbit hole and into Wonderland. ‘Andra’ seems a reference to Androcles and the Lion, especially given how Manetheren was referred to as thorn in the DO’s foot. He’s definitely taking out some thorns… only so they can be shoved back in up the ass.

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7 years ago

In his post, Kelsey speaks of his suspicion that the temperatures mentioned in this reading in some way refers to the One Power. Without being too spoilery, he is half right. The cold in the room with Nynaeve and Moiraine isn’t about the Power. Think ‘icy stare’, cool and aloof, etc. Its the perception of the temperature lowering in the room as felt by everyone else present. As to the other temperature? You’ll definitely discover in the next few readings. 

In all the Tolkien references I’m surprised no one brought up Moiraine’s staff. Its very Gandalf right? She does point out that objects don’t have anything to do with the Power, just and aid to concentration. It isn’t really a spoiler to mention that the staff goes away relatively soon and is never really mentioned again. I’ve always thought that Jordan had tried it on for a while, didn’t really like it, and left it by the side of the road. 

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7 years ago

Man…I am forgetting how great this series is and how much the tension ramps up.  It’s so fun to see all these characters pop up again.

And yes, you will ADORE Nyneave. I do, at least.  Now that the series is over, I can confidently say she is my favorite character. She’s loyal, stubborn (perhaps to a fault), passionate, angry at injustice (I love how she is cognizant of the damage done to ‘the little people’), awesomely competent and just doesn’t really get bothered by concepts like, ‘this shouldn’t be possible’ or ‘this is how it’s always been done’.  She definitely does have some annoying qualities (as well as some insecurities I think borne out by her young age) but girl knows what she wants, and I love her character all the more for it in some ways.

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7 years ago

Curious how Kelsey is feeling about Nynaeve now that she’s been fleshed out a bit from grumpy healer woman in the first few chapters.

Also, despite the frivolity, I liked the whole dance sequence. Both on initial read and on reread. There’s just something so very enjoyable about the Aes Sedai and Wisdom letting their hair down for a minute.

One difference between Jordan and Tolkien is that the forces of good always end up uniting in the end for Tolkien unless they’ve been directly touched by Sauron. The dwarves and elves may bicker, but you know they’ll get together in the end. Here, the Children of the Light are the first of many forces that have nothing to do the Dark One, but pose serious obstacles to our heroes.

So Mat is Pippin, Rand is Frodo, Perrin is a mix of Sam and Merry, Moiraine is Gandalf, Lan is Aragorn. Who are Egwene and Thom? I think Egwene might be Legolas, he has some “Ooh! Ooh! girl” qualities about him.

And from the other side who is the closest thing to Tom Bombadil? Unconcerned outside power that could help, but doesn’t really care enough to.

Braid_Tug
7 years ago

When I first read EotW,  I had not yet read TLotR.  I’ve still only read LotR twice, so many of the comparisons with EotW are lost on me.  

Thank you Kelsey for pointing them out so clearly.  

I may have to start counting bath scenes. I had forgotten about this one. 

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7 years ago

@25 – I don’t know, the Creator maybe for Tom Bombadil?  I’m not sure there’s a great Tom Bombadil analogue, since Tom himself is not really the Creator (although I wouldn’t be surprised if there isn’t a theory that claims he is…I’ve seen theories that he’s one of the Valar or a high powered Maiar)

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7 years ago

@25@27 Tom Bombadil (and the Ents) in tEotW //spoilers is the Nym at the Eye of the World. //spoilers

At least, to me that comparison seemed pretty easy to make.

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7 years ago

Alys = alias (Latin for other), Andra = Anderer (German for other)

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Stedonmor74
7 years ago

I just stumbled across this tonight, and found it very interesting. I’ve been, continuously, reading TWoT series for, about, 15 years, though I started itbseveral years before that. I always have several books going at a time, so it takes me 1 1/2-2 years to go through it and when I finish, I usually, start TEotW a few months later, since it would have been over 2 years since I read it. I’ve enjoyed reading the comments and hearing how other people interpret and experience the books. The parallels, to LotR, pop up throughout the series, though, I feel that Jordan’s, characters and especially the world he creates, are more developed and multidimensional. The foundation, that Tolkien built is, what, I feel, Jordan used to build his series……. (Nynaeve, is my favorite, too.  I think she’s has a bit of Gandalf and Samwise, in her. She has the ornery, but humorous, competency of Gandalf, mixed with the determinedly, steadfast caregiver personality traits of Samwise.)

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J - Bowman of Runcorn
7 years ago

Right that’s it I’m going to re-read the whole lot again. I have forgotten so much since I last read this wonderful story.

As for the way people analyes the story to death. I don’t see the need, I read because I enjoy the story, not to see what the author may have meant by this or by that plot. Just enjoy the story people.

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7 years ago

I’m in my seventies and started reading WoT when my then-13-year-old grandson badgered me into it. He’s 29 now and I’ve read the series four times. 

Excellent comments from Kelsey, and thoughtful responses from all, will keep me coming back. 

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7 years ago

@27, @28 The more I think about it, Bombadil’s real function was to shelter the heroes as they got strong enough to face the outside world without Gandalf. // Therefore, Thom, Bayle Domon, Elias, and the Tinkers all somewhat qualify. I think I’ll go with Thom because Bombadil was also always singing. I know that comparison doesn’t hold up over the entire series, but later on the series diverges more and more from LOTR in general. // What do you think?

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KimSteeple
7 years ago

I didn’t get the references to LoTR at all. LOL  Now I do.  As I read these chapters (this is my first read through), I thought Rand was a type of Thor and that Mat was Loki. Mainly because Rand’s last name is:  al’Thor.  And more than once in this book Mat has been called a trickster.  But then I’ve been watching the History Channel’s Viking for the last year or so.

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Uvadoc06
7 years ago

@34 Some of the characters do end up having parallels to Norse mythology. 

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7 years ago

Hi all, I have not been around because I’ve been sick in the hospital with lung congestion.  They just let me go this evening, so it will take me a while to catch up with comments.  I still have a ton of meds and treatments to continue, including O2.  So I am a little slow on the uptake.  I didn’t forget WOT.  I had moved into book two, while I was sick.  Finished it, and flipped it over when I ran out of reading material.  It kept me very good company.  Although with this being my sixth or seventh reading of this mass market paperback, plus the at least once or twice my husband and daughter read the same copy, once in the day.  Let us say, that it is getting well loved.  It is a very good novel to look forward tooooo.   I hope to see you in the comments soon.

I have a cross Jordan/Sanderson question that isn’t really a spoiler, I think??   Does anyone else think or maybe know the reason that the description of their eyebrows is similar between Jordan’s Ogiers – like a long mustashe and Sanderson’s Thaydens – very long often tucked behind ears.

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Uvadoc06
7 years ago

I believe it is an intentional nod/wink, but nothing more. The Thaylens aren’t descended from Ogiers or anything.

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7 years ago

@35 To avoid spoilers, I’ll say only that RJ freely “borrowed” themes, ideas and names from several different mythologies and epic tales (including Norse).  Some are borrowed elliptically, such as use of suggestive names, others quite strongly.  It’s a fun thing to look for as the chapters continue.  

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7 years ago

@39 Rumors and distortions across distances is a recurring theme. I was considering how they are usually transmitted by pigeons or merchants or couriers and noticed that none such would have been leaving the Two Rivers.

From how the A Song of Ice and Fire Read went, spoilers or insufficiently oblique hints that spoil things are probably still going to happen.

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7 years ago

I have read this series at least 6 times starting in about 1990, and now have an electronic copy of all 14 books, that I reread at my leisure, tEoTW is a homage to Tolkein, which I have also read many times, but there is far more to the series than that, the whole work is a vast game of ‘Chinese Whispers’

Kelsey did you catch the references to QE2, the cold war, and the eagle has landed etc. in the first 4 chapters, also

In Chapter 1 , the Empty Road, Paragraph 1, RJ stated the guiding philosophy of these books, Myths and Legends, hope you enjoy as much as I have

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7 years ago

 Kelsey – just wanted to say thanks a lot for starting this series…as now I can’t resist anymore and I’ve started a re-read of my own.  It’s been a few years, so I guess it’s time.  Started last week and now I’m a bit over halfway through EotW and…oh gosh I forgot how good it is.  So enjoyable.  And awww…everyone is so little and sweet and innocent.  Such babies!!  Looking forward to your next post.  =)

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7 years ago

Kelsey – I am impressed that you suspected that Moraine did not actually step over the wall, rather she walked through the gate while generating an illusion.  I know I did not pick that up the first time I read TEoTW.  In fact, I’m impressed in general with how much you are getting right about the general story line — certainly much more than I did my first time.

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ABarlow
7 years ago

@34, re, the Norse stuff (spoilers that cover much of the series):

//As it turns out, Perrin most closely parallels Thor in the later books (hammers, the beard, wolf imagery, as well as general temperament). Mat is Odin (Ravens, the spear, losing an eye, the hat, luck, gambling, battles). Rand is Tyr (chief god, missing hand, heroism, binding the evil one until the last battle)//

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7 years ago

Don’t know if it’s been said in the comments but Rand’s reactions – the heat, dizziness, etc. all make sense in the end.  I think it’s already been explained what’s happening to him by another character in the book bot long before this chapter.

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John
6 years ago

This read has prompted me to do a reread and I just got up to the scene where Rand sits down at the table in the middle halfway between Nynaeve and Moiraine.  Made me think about  // how they are the two that join him to confront the Dark One in the end.  I wonder if the way they form a sort of triangle at the table with him in the center was deliberate foreshadowing this early on or if I’m just imagining it.)//

The.Schwartz.be.with.you

@25 – “There’s just something so very enjoyable about the Aes Sedai and Wisdom letting their hair down for a minute.” – So very true.

” I think Egwene might be Legolas, he has some “Ooh! Ooh! girl” qualities about him.” … I still can’t decide if I’m amused or shocked or what…

Kelsey thanks for this great thread. Guys your comments are on several levels just great.

 

 

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